Transcript
Christian Moore (CM): Hey, y’all, I’m Christian.
Karina Arroyo (KA): I’m Karina.
Yecelica Valdivia (YV): I’m Yecelica,
CM: And we are RVC’s Fellowship Team. Our program is closing down, and we want to take this little bit of time to share about our experience running the program in this legacy. But before we do that, let’s give you a little bit of backstory about what the fellowship is.
From 2015 to 2024 RVC’s Community Impact Fellowship was a learning experience focused on building the capacity of grassroots BIPOC nonprofits and leaders in the greater Seattle area. Fellows were placed into capacity building roles such as operations, development and program management, while also being supported in a leadership journey through training, coaching, mentorship and a peer cohort. Host organizations receive the fellow, capacity coaching, and access to a supportive network and key resources.
KA: We’re going to do a few rounds of asking each other questions. So to start us off, let’s go back to the very beginning. What was going on in your life when you first joined the fellowship team, and how did you know that this was the right next step for you at the time? yjv, do you want to kick us off?
YV: Yes, I was actually unemployed at the time, and I had ended my job a couple about three months before I joined RVC, and I was actually looking for organization that I could grow with and I could learn a lot from. And at the time, I also really wanted to be part of an organization that was responsive.
So if I had things to offer that the organization would be able to hear those, listen to them and integrate them. And I wanted to be on a team that was really moving as a team and that was really collaborative.
So when I heard about this position, it was actually, at the time, a coordinator position, and I had other kinds of leadership roles in my past. And I just really wanted, I think, also, a job that had a lot of boundaries, and that was very clear about the job description. And at the time, I thought it was clear, but then when I got into it, it wasn’t. But at the time, I was like, okay, RVC. I’m familiar with RVC.
My last organization had a fellow, and that fellow and I actually became really good friends over time. And when this popped up, I was like, why not? Let’s take a chance. So I applied, and I remember also asking for the top of the pay range, and knowing that that would be the most I’ve ever made so far in the nonprofit world. And RVC said yes, and I was really surprised by that, but I think it was, like, really good. It gave me a really good gauge of maybe what I might be able to ask for, or maybe there might be some mutual investment here at RVC. So I was like, why not? Let’s do it. Let’s see what happens, and let’s see where this goes. But I think I was really wanting to, like, grow and learn at the time.That’s that’s me. How about you, Karina?
KA: When I first joined the fellowship team, I had been out of my graduate program in nonprofit leadership for about six months, and up until I joined RVC, I had done a lot of work that was direct service, so case management, and a lot of coordinator roles. I had even done some fundraising, and I was really looking for something that would allow me to continue doing what I had started doing in my graduate program, which was facilitation and supporting bipoc leaders and growing in their careers, and seeing this program coordinator position pop up, I was like, this is the perfect position, because there’s a lot of room to grow. They’re looking for that, and I have a lot of energy to expand my interest into things like facilitation and potentially coaching.
And when I applied, I was really ready to leave the organization that I’d been at for a few years at that point and really looking for a new team, so I felt like it was the right decision. RVC was also the only job that I applied to during that round of job searching,and it was actually Christian that reached out to me pretty soon after I applied to schedule an interview, and throughout the process, it felt really affirming of the experiences that I’d had so far in the nonprofit sector and of also the interest that I had in joining a capacity building organization that was focused on leadership development. I remember there was a moment in one of my interviews that someone had said that, you know, from day one, RVC is going to value your opinion and your input, because we really do value each of our team members contributions, and that’s been my experience, and that’s what I was really hoping for when I joined. So that’s how I felt like I knew that that was the right next step for me. What about you, Christian?
CM: Good question. For me, I was in a really interesting, I guess, crossroads in my life and my career. I had been in the nonprofit sector for a couple years, at that point, doing similar leadership development work, but I was working at a predominantly white organization, working with programs that were more short term. It was also, I had recently relocated to Seattle, and so at that point it was like everyone else kind of did during the pandemic. Gave me a lot of time to think about what I want to do next, and I realized that I really craved, had a desire to be in an environment where we were making a deeper impact with the fellows we worked with, being able to work with them over a long period of time. And also had a deep desire to really work and connect with communities of color.
As a Black man, that’s really important to me, and so coming across RVC felt like perfect timing. After I had my interview, actually, with yjv, and after the first interview, I declined all my other interviews that I had in the queue, and just kind of put all my chips into RVC, just because, just because, like for that conversation, it just really gave me a sense of the values here, how committed we are to communities of color, organizations of color, and leaders of color, and this is something I really want to be part of, and definitely one of the best decisions I’ve made so far in my career.
YV: Aw.
This is yjv. I have a question for Christian and Karina. So if you were mentoring someone stepping into this kind of role, what’s one mistake you’d want to help them avoid? So I’m gonna kick it off to Christian.
CM: Cool. Thanks. The advice that I would give to folks would be, don’t try to do everything yourself. I think doing this work, it’s very relational, right? We’re working with fellows in a very particular point in their lives and their careers, and it’s work that is very important to us, to our identities, to our values. And because of that, you can feel a lot of pressure to always be on and at the end of the day, we’re also human. And there’s gonna be moments where you feel overwhelmed, right? We all have but so much capacity. There’s gonna be moments where you don’t have the answers and you might feel flustered, and it’s really easy to kind of get stuck in your head in those moments, to overthink, over analyze, be self critical, and the most important thing you can do is kind of get out of your head and lean on your team. Right?
Team is meant to be a team, and so reach out to people around you. Don’t be afraid to ask for help. It’s not a indictment against you know your value or your brilliance or your skill, but it’s really is about being part of a team and knowing and trusting that those folks are there for you to offer guidance, to offer support, because you’ll have a shared goal of making an impact in the lives of the fellows and partners that we work with. And I’ll pass to you, Karina.
KA: Yeah, thanks. I actually have a really similar answer to you, and I think the one mistake I’d want to help someone avoid is not taking advantage of, like, the knowledge on your team. So stacking on top of this idea of not having you do everything yourself. I stepped into a team that had multiple iterations of coordinators that had stepped into newer roles, and I think often I saw them in that perspective of like, they’re in this role at this moment, but I didn’t, I feel like a missed opportunity was not asking them more about, like, what the program was like when they were in my position.
And often, what happens in nonprofit work, especially when you’re handling coordinator roles, like things like logistics and communications, is that sometimes things live in people’s brains and they’re not written down somewhere, and sometimes that’s just a habit that’s formed, and because they’re still on the team, you’re like, I can ask them at any point.
And I would say, take advantage and start up that conversation and ask something, even if it’s like, Do you have any tips and tricks about these monthly training days that we have, or what has been helpful for you and organizing your tasks? It could be an opportunity for you to learn something new, and it could also be an opportunity for you to be affirmed in techniques that you’re already trying in your role, and kind of help build trust in that relationship with your coworkers in that way.
This is Karina, and I have a question for Christian and yjv, if you had one last message for the fellows, what would it be? Christian?
CM: Thanks, Karina, my message would be, always, stay connected to your “why”. Nonprofit work is beautiful. It’s very rewarding, but it’s also really challenging. Working with an organization working within the system that the nonprofit exists in can be really, really tough.
And those moments where you can doubt yourself, feel overwhelmed, wonder if you’re making an impact at all, and so in those moments, I think it’s really important to stay connected to your “why” and not feel pressure to conform to whatever norms exist in the center in the sector. Don’t be afraid to push back on things. Don’t be afraid to ask the uncomfortable questions or make the unpopular decisions, especially if you know it’s going to make a deep impact in the lives of the people you’re working with, the communities you’re connected to, and the folks around you supporting the work. So yeah, just always sticking it to your “why” and let that guide you. Now, I’ll pass to yjv.
YV: That was helpful to hear your answer. What came up for me was, I think we This isn’t one of our leadership principles. I kind of sometimes wish it were, but I suppose it can fall under our transformation, Transformative Leadership principle. But I think a lot about vulnerability. I think, you know, part of our program is around leadership development.
The hope, or the ideal, is that folks who come out of the fellowship can continue on in like leadership positions in the sector and kind of shape the next kind of level, or next maybe iteration, of what leadership can look like in the sector. And I’ve- the number of times that I’ve seen where if people were just a little bit more vulnerable, and that can also look like either transparent or honest, just maybe honest where they were, maybe the impact that something’s having on them, maybe giving feedback to somebody in a different kind of role and position than you, or just approaching somebody when something feels off, and just seeing where that might take you.
I think all those moments are vulnerable, and I think vulnerability can take us a really long way. I think it can clear up miscommunication and misunderstanding, I think in clear up assumptions about each other, and I think sometimes we forget that we’re humans and that sometimes, like, can we just be human together and not think about the system or the process or the policy, granted, I know some context those are going to be important.
But when we’re not in those high stake kind of places, I’m just like, can we just, like, look at each other and be human together and have a more honest, more open conversation? Because I’m like, that can- man, so many instances I can think about that where, if we had just done that, that would really have changed the course of maybe, like what unfolded. So that’s what I would say.
CM: okay, yjv, you’ve had front row seats to the journeys of so many fellows. Is there a particular transformation you witnessed that really moved you?
YV: Yeah, I’ve, I’ve seen two cohorts and the very, very end of another cohort,and there was one person in particular that I remember. I was coaching them, and I remember they ended up transitioning from their other organization,and the conversations that we had were really honest, and sometimes, as somebody supporting other people, sometimes gauging the line between what might be a little too honest or like, where can you push people and be like, “Hey, here’s a place where I think some reflection is really important.”
But I just remember the kinds of conversations we were having in that transition around like reflecting on organizational culture, reflecting on their own leadership, even reflecting on some of the hard conflict that was coming up between them and somebody, another person at the organization. And I remember one conversation in particular. I can’t remember what question I asked, and it like opens something up, and I could see it happening. And then they started the way that they were, like, thinking about some of the hard moments, they had a lot more compassion, the way that they were just describing, maybe their reflection on it, you can see it starting to shift.
And rather than like,the continuing kind of narrative or story that they were having was like, this person did me wrong, or this person had done things to me.It started becoming more of a conversation around maybe what was going on for the other person, maybe where did I contribute to that conversation or to those dynamics that were happening. And I think that opened up something really different for this person. And it also was really helpful to then think about maybe where they would want to go next, and what are the dynamics that they were really interested in.
And also I remember when they started interviewing, some of the ownership that they took on, whether it was like in the interview process in the questions that they were asking. And then also when they were offered a job, kind of really owning their onboarding experience, which I think was really different from when they first started in the fellowship at the beginning, is you could really tell that they were engaging in their own process in a way that was about their learning and about their growth, and rather than kind of taking what was given, they were really kind of shaping that experience for them.
So I got to it was just really, really cool to see that. And also their voice really developed, like really shifted over the time that we worked together, and over their time in the fellowship. And they just became, I think they came out of their shell a little bit more. So it was just really sweet to see where they were, where they first started. and not all of it is due to the fellowship, but I think the fellowship offered space and, you know, the opportunity to, like, try things out, make mistakes and try again. And so I just, I just, when I think about this person, I’m just like, man, you did, you did a lot, you know, you did a lot of really cool kind of inner work and a lot of growth of your time throughout the fellowship.
This is yjv. We have a really juicy question for Karina, how has this work changed you, and why has it made you rethink or understand more deeply?
KA: So as I shared, I had recently graduated from my master’s program, and during that program, I did research about BIPOC nonprofit professionals and their experience with professional development opportunities. And I had a focus on folks that were really similar to me having direct service experience. A lot of them had imposter syndrome and kind of wanting to reach new levels in their career. And a lot of them had cited that their supervisor was a really pivotal stakeholder in their experiences at their jobs, meaning that whether or not they decided to stay ultimately came down to their relationship with their supervisor, how they were supported. And one of my favorite findings in that research project was this continuous pattern of those participants in determining their own path, deciding that they were fine leaving a job if it had been less than a year, or they were fine in sticking it out and deciding to do professional development opportunity, like a training, like a fellowship.
So when this job became available, I really wanted to learn more about what it meant to be in a fellowship, and when I joined the team, I was immediately blown away by the fellows that we were working with, and honestly in awe at the similarities that I had with a few of them, of shared lived experience being from the Seattle area, doing nonprofit work and really just continuing to bump up against things as you’re trying to push back against white dominant culture in nonprofits and “the way things have always been.” And it was the real time getting to speak one on one with those fellows and talk to them about things that they were experiencing at their work sites, how they were trying to figure out how to communicate feedback effectively and with respect, and how they were trying to network as they were getting ready to transition out of the fellowship as it was ending last spring, it felt like a real life example of how BIPOC leaders are determining their own path in the sector, and it’s really one of the reasons why the fellowship has been so impactful on me.
Even though I am not a participant, I’m someone that supports the program, because I see the tangible difference in how people have developed their skill sets and advocating for themselves and really taking charge of what they want to accomplish. And it’s changed me, because I’m finding myself in a similar position now, where I’m figuring out what I want to do next. Do I want to supervise others? Do I want to continue doing facilitation? And I know that for me, I want to do it as the fellows have done in the past iterations, and I want to use my network, and I want to try new things and not be afraid of the possibility of a no, because you can just keep trying, and you can work with other people and come up with a collaborative solution. So this work has changed me in a lot of ways, but it’s definitely a direct impact from the relationships that I was able to build with some of the fellows.
CM: All right, everyone is Christian again, here for our last question, how can people continue to support the work that’s important to you even after you leave and I’ll pass the Karina to kick us off,
KA: I would say, if you’re someone that works at a nonprofit, whether you’re a supervisor, whether you’re entry level, whether you’re an executive level leadership staff; advocate for professional development at your nonprofits, it does not have to be paid. You do not have to set aside a huge budget for it. It’s a huge plus if you can, because things do cost money. But think about affinity spaces that you could have at your organization, or think about how you could have peer supervision time where supervisors come in and support each other. Think about requirements for supervision training for your supervisors so they can adequately do the things that they need to do, while also supporting other staff that are trying to grow in their own leadership journeys.
And I’ll say it, I’ll say it first, you can definitely support RVC after the fellowship is winding down.We want to see the fellowship program come back. We want to see RVC be rebuilt in a way that is full and if you’ve enjoyed listening to us talk about these and want to hear us come back, or hear another iteration of the fellowship team come back, please consider donating to RVC or becoming a monthly donor and supporting the work in that way. But the simplest way is to continue advocating for professional development opportunities within your organization. And if you don’t see a way to do it structurally, try doing it individually. Reach out to someone on your team. Talk about if you want to do some co-working, if you want to look into trainings together. There are a lot of free opportunities, especially if you’re in the Seattle area. So use your networks. I’ll pass it to yjv.
YV: I like your interpretation of the of the question. I think what I would add, there’s a another teammate of ours, Jesse, who’s the director of the DEC team, and had mentioned one time, like maybe, maybe it makes sense for RVC to go back to kind of its origins, and it’s like how it started. And how it started was with a different kind of working groups of BIPOC folks, of focusing on curriculum, or focusing on just like, different areas of RVC. And this was before RVC even kind of came to be, and people were just bringing some of the really good thinking about, kind of creating, envisioning this organization called RVC that we have now. And so I think that could be really cool. And thinking about moving forward, and there has been an emphasis on seeing RVC rebuild. And so I think that there could be a lot of future space and opportunity to kind of Co-create that next iteration or future of RVC together.
Because we did start that way, and it’s like, why couldn’t we do that again? And when I think also about fellows and alumni, I think you all are some of the biggest- we have a couple alumni actually on our board- and they’re some of our biggest, like champions of our work. And I think you all bring a lot of depth and knowledge of our program, and I think a lot of love too. And so many of you have gotten so much out of this program, and would love to see you all kind of contribute back to that vision, you know, the next iteration, what that could look like, I think kind of along the lines of Karina, because I really appreciated how you interpreted that question.
I think for me, the thing that I keep kind of sitting with is just like how I think I also have a desire for like leadership to look really different in our sector, for as long as nonprofits are going to exist, then I’m like, Well, how do we make kinder, more dignified, more human organizations? And for me, that also means like leadership that can empathize, that is also caring, that is also that also has a vision. And can move people forward and move people along, and that – everyone’s not going to always like it, you know? And it also means disappointing people.
But I think we need leaders who can tolerate a big range of not just feelings and emotions, but also kind of strategies to support kind of people through big feelings and things that are really rational to like really hard times. So I don’t know what that necessarily looks like, but therapy and, you know, continue conversation. Conversations with other BIPOC folks, you know about, like, the kind of organizations that we really want to see and build, and then how do you put that into practice, like, for real, and not just, I think it’s easy to rely on traditional kind of practices when things get hard. And when things get hard is when we need more connection and more vision and more creativity. So, yeah, that’s what, that’s what I would love to see. I know that’s not the question necessarily, but yeah, those are my thoughts. How about you Christian?
CM: Cool, thanks yjv. You know, one reason why the fellowship was created was to address the fact that people of color, professionals of color, leaders of color, face huge barriers to opportunities to step into leadership roles and to access professional development opportunities. And even after a decade of us running this program, those barriers still exist. And so even though the fellowship isgoing away, that need isn’t and so I really strongly encourage whoever’s listening to this, to make sure you’re investing in BIPOC leaders. And that can be a lot of different ways that can be, you know, through donating to lease development programs you know, such as RVC, or you know, others that are important to you.
But I think it’s also taking a personal interest and personal stake in that work. You know, leadership development doesn’t have to be something, you know, super drawn out. It can be something that’s very individual. If there’s people in your organization, particularly people of color, just take a little more effort in investing in them, whether that’s being their mentor, offering coaching, including them in decision making, introducing them to people to help increase their network, or taking the time to just kind of break down when there’s situations that arise, taking a moment to debrief and discuss, like why the decision was was made, or what could we done differently. Those are all things that you can do to help BIPOC leaders continue to, you know, invest in themselves and grow and tap into different opportunities.
Then the other side of that, I would say, is continue investing in yourself as a leader, whether you’re a person of color or not. We all interact with people of color and communities of color, and leadership is in everything. It’s not just limited to the nonprofit sector. It’s not just limited to a role. And so how can you invest in yourself and continuously grow? How can you create space where you’re, you know, self assessing. We’re constantly learning and evolving. And, you know, going to one of our values, transformation, right? Transformation, I think, isn’t just a one time thing. It’s a continuous process and progress. You can always grow, you can always improve. You can always be a step into more of what you want to be. And so between those two things, that would be the best way that you can support cool, and that’s a wrap for us. So we’re going to end this like we do our meetings with a “Go Team.” So on 3. 1-2-3…
Everyone: Go… team!
CM: Thanks everyone!
